Sitat av
Xasma
Gitt hvordan du omtaler ting, antar jeg du vet hvordan internasjonale lover og domstoler fungerer. De har bare ikke kastet ut saken som merittløs. Det er noe ganske annet enn å si noe som helst om skyldsspørsmålet som jeg antar du henviser til. Riktig nok har domstolen gjerne dømt de som blir tiltalt - men det er på ingen måte gitt. Det eneste som ville vært sjokkerende her, var om en domstol konkluderte så tidlig. Gitt hvordan rettssystemer fungerer.
For så vidt korrekt. Men det betyr ikke at vedtaket, og beslutningen om hastetiltak eller “provisional measures” ikke skal tas på høyeste alvor.
Her er kravene ICJ stilte Israel:
In its Order, which has binding effect, the Court indicates the following provisional measures:
“(1) By fifteen votes to two,
The State of Israel shall, in accordance with its obligations under the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, in relation to Palestinians in Gaza, take all measures within its power to prevent the commission of all acts within the scope of Article II of this Convention, in particular:
(a) killing members of the group;
(b) causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; and
(d) imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(2) By fifteen votes to two,
The State of Israel shall ensure with immediate effect that its military does not commit any acts described in point 1 above;
3) By sixteen votes to one,
The State of Israel shall take all measures within its power to prevent and punish the direct and public incitement to commit genocide in relation to members of the Palestinian group in the Gaza Strip;
(4) By sixteen votes to one,
The State of Israel shall take immediate and effective measures to enable the provision of urgently needed basic services and humanitarian assistance to address the adverse conditions of life faced by Palestinians in the Gaza Strip;
5) By fifteen votes to two,
The State of Israel shall take effective measures to prevent the destruction and ensure the preservation of evidence related to allegations of acts within the scope of Article II and Article III of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide against members of the Palestinian group in the Gaza Strip;
6) By fifteen votes to two,
The State of Israel shall submit a report to the Court on all measures taken to give effect to this Order within one month as from the date of this Order.
Sitat av
Xasma
Floskel om fredsnasjonen Norge til side - hva ser du for deg som en god løsning, og hvordan tenker du den skjer?
Jeg har for så vidt skrevet et par ganger allerede hva jeg mener er kjernen i hvordan dette må tas videre. Derimot tror jeg ikke noen av sidene - aller minst Israel - er tilbøyelige til å gå den veien av egen drift. Man kan argumentere for at Israel-støtten og sionismen i USA utgjør det største hinderet, men jeg kan ikke se noen tendens til signifikant endring annet sted enn i det økende motsetningsforholdet mellom selvforståelsen og oppfatningen av konflikten hos myndighetene i vestlige land og hos befolkningen generelt. Men det vil nok også føre med seg litt av hvert.
Sitat av
Xasma
Det er også noe interessant hvordan du ikke nevner at selv de mest svartmalende rapportene, som tilsier 80-200k personer i Gaza er medlem av Hamas eller annen Iranstøttet millits av totalt 2,6 mill. Som har nektet befolkningen å holde valg siden 2006. De nektet også å dele mat og drivstoff med lokalbefolkningen fordi krigføringen var viktigere. Etter 75 år, så er maksimalt 10% av befolkningen radikalisert - de fleste vil bare leve sine liv. Det er bemerkelsesverdig medmenneskelig av befolkningen generelt utifra vestlig etteretning. Så ikke våg å likestille de med Hamas og annet pakk. Utifra din logikk er nazismen forståelig etter Versailles-traktaten. For å sitere Magdi fra Karpe: "Jøde. Israeler. Sionist. Ikke bland kortene." La meg legge til "Palestiner. Muslim. Islamist. Jihadist. Ikke bland kortene.".
Jeg synes den slags i siste ende blir vanskelig å felle dom over. Det er ikke å forglemme at mat- og drivstoffmangel på Gaza-stripen ikke i bunn og grunn skyldes den politiske eller militære aktiviteten til Hamas, men Israel - som Gazas kunstige, avsperrede karakter generelt. Jeg må innrømme at jeg ikke helt skjønner hvilken relevans den “utelatelsen” du fant “interessant” har for det jeg skrev.
Men for øvrig er jeg enig i det generelle poenget om at begrepsforvirring er verdt å unngå - men for å komme med en generell betraktning selv, er det vel naturlig at disse kortene har litt forskjellig innhold avhengig av synsvinkel, og at dette innholdet heller ikke er statisk. Og bevisste politiske valg og vurderinger ligger gjerne bak ordvalg - f.eks. gikk Israel for noen tiår siden i mange sammenhenger internt i landet bort fra å snakke om “palestinere”, og heller snakke om “arabere”, som assosierer til oljepenger og den slags, istedenfor “palestinere” som assosierte for mye til flyktningsleirer og fordrevne. Ellers har jeg forsøkt å poengtere hvordan begrepet “terrorisme” utgjør en slik “blanding av kortene”, som for å ta ett eksempel kan gjøre en uvitende om, eller usikker på hvordan man skal forstå, at IS(IS) for en del år siden
erklærte Hamas krig, og Hamas
motarbeider sporer til salafisme i Gaza.
Og siden vi snakker om Hamas, formulerer denne artikkelen godt mange viktige poenger:
Chris Hedges: Palestinians Speak the Language of Violence Israel Taught Them
The indiscriminate shootings of Israelis by Hamas and other Palestinian resistance organizations, the kidnapping of civilians, the barrage of rockets into Israel, drone attacks on a variety of targets from tanks to automated machine gun nests, are the familiar language of the Israeli occupier. Israel has spoken this blood-soaked language of violence to the Palestinians since Zionist militias seized more than 78 percent of historic Palestine, destroyed some 530 Palestinian villages and cities and killed about 15,000 Palestinians in more than 70 massacres. Some 750,000 Palestinians were ethnically cleansed between 1947 and 1949 to create the state of Israel in 1948.
Israel’s response to these armed incursions will be a genocidal assault on Gaza. Israel will kill dozens of Palestinians for every Israeli killed. Hundreds of Palestinians have already died in Israel air assaults since the launch of “Operation Al-Aqsa Flood” on Saturday morning, which left 700 Israelis dead.x
Prime Minister Netanyahu warned Palestinians in Gaza on Sunday to “leave now,” because Israel is going to “turn all Hamas hiding places into rubble.”
But where are Palestinians in Gaza supposed to go? Israel and Egypt blockade the land borders. There is no exit by air or sea, which are controlled by Israel.x
The collective retribution against innocents is a familiar tactic employed by colonial rulers. We used it against Native Americans and later in the Philippines and Vietnam. The Germans used it against the Herero and Namaqua in Namibia. The British in Kenya and Malaya. The Nazis used it in the areas they occupied in the Soviet Union, Eastern and Central Europe. Israel follows the same playbook. Death for death. Atrocity for atrocity. But it is always the occupier who initiates this macabre dance and trades piles of corpses for higher piles of corpses.
This is not to defend the war crimes by either side. It is not to rejoice in the attacks. I have seen enough violence in the Israeli occupied territories, where I covered the conflict for seven years, to loathe violence. But this is the familiar denouement to all settler-colonialx projects. Regimes implanted and maintained by violence engender violence. The Haitian war of liberation. The Mau Mau in Kenya. The African National Congress in South Africa. These uprisings do not always succeed, but they follow familiar patterns. The Palestinians, like all colonized people, have a right to armed resistance under international law.xxx
Israel never had any interest in an equitable settlement with the Palestinians. It built an apartheid state and has steadily absorbed larger and larger tracts of Palestinian land in a slow motion campaign of ethnic cleansing. It turned Gaza in 2007 into the world’s largest open air prison.
What does Israel, or the world community, expect? How can you trap 2.3 million people in Gaza, half of whom are unemployed, in one of the most densely populated spots on the planet for 16 years, reduce the lives of its residents, half of whom are children, to a subsistence level, deprive them of basic medical supplies, food, water and electricity, use attack aircraft, artillery, mechanized units, missiles, naval guns and infantry units to randomly slaughter unarmed civilians and not expect a violent response? Israel is currently carrying out waves of aerial assaults on Gaza, preparing a ground invasion and has cut the power to Gaza, which usually only operates two to four hours per day.
Many of the resistance fighters who infiltrated into Israel undoubtedly knew they would be killed. But like resistance fighters in other wars of liberation they decided that if they could not choose how they would live, they would choose how they would die.
Ellers er siste nytt dette:
UNRWA report says Israel coerced some agency employees to falsely admit Hamas links
(Reuters) - The U.N. agency for Palestinian refugees said some employees released into Gaza from Israeli detention reported having been pressured by Israeli authorities into falsely stating that the agency has Hamas links and that staff took part in the Oct. 7 attacks.
The document said several UNRWA Palestinian staffers had been detained by the Israeli army, and added that the ill-treatment and abuse they said they had experienced included severe physical beatings, waterboarding, and threats of harm to family members.
Israel torturerte FN-personell.